12-12-2001.
CELL PROBLEMS.
AIM.
To again cover the issues related to getting a Joe cell to stage 3, by a '
normal ' patient individual and utilising readily available tools and materials.
' Normal ' referring to an individual that has the ' right ' mindset as
explained elsewhere.
Please note, most of the following material has been covered in my manual, there
is very little additional data in this update.
However, this material is presented in a different way so that some people may
find it easier to comprehend.
INTRODUCTION.
On looking at the Web on subjects related to the Joe cell, two things crop up
over and over.
Namely, the incorrect use of information as supplied in my manual and the
resultant cries of " I cannot get stage three, help! " or " what a load of bull
s***, it cannot possibly work! ".
The cloud-screens of misinformation, wild unsubstantiated guesses and sheer pie
in the sky guess work does not help the above matter.
Please let me try to tell you as to how I see the cell information problem.
For obvious reasons, the expert on the Joe cell is Joe! However, as Joe has not
published any material or authorised any photographs or videos, the information
from the horses mouth is zero. All visitors to Joe leave as confused ( if not
more so ) as they were before they arrived.
So what do we do? Well, for a start, we must be very careful that we do not
listen to information from the other end of the horse.
Regarding Joe, we have a couple of options:
1. Visit Joe and look, learn and listen. Great! many people have done that.Some actually have stayed with Joe for periods as long as 9 months! On leaving
Joe ( as mentioned above ), they were unable to replicate what Joe can do.
2. Ring Joe up on the phone and have a talk. Great as well. Unfortunately
people have talked to Joe for hours on end, and although they heard plenty, were
still not able to replicate Joe's work.
Okay, what gives? How come all these thousands of visitors ( yes, that figure is
correct as Joe keeps a visitors book ), that are keen and eager cannot duplicate
what Joe has shown them or told them on the phone?
I see six options:
1. Joe is a fake, the cell is a dud.
2. Joe is deliberately laying down a smoke screen.
3. All the visitors are stupid and cannot follow simple instructions.
4. Joe is a very special person and no one else has his special ' vibes '.
5. The cell will only work at Joe's place due to a ley line, a space warp or similar.
6. There is a set of special design procedures that Joe is not telling anybody about.
From the above list, and after spending 8 years full time on the
subject, I can tell you with certainty that you can completely
eliminate option 1, 3 and 5.
Option 2 and 6 are a FACT! Option 4 is only partially true.
So, where does the above analysis leave us?
The good news is, that if you know the special procedures required to
make and start the cell and if you have the right ' polarity ' when in
close proximity to the cell, there is no reason why you cannot get a
cell to stage 3.
Unfortunately life is not that easy, I still believe the ' Y ' factor is a variable to consider.
As I am not privy to the Joe and Dennis secrets, I will assume that the
polarity of the person is important at least in the early seeding
stages of the cell.
Joe has stated that the location and the polarity of the person does
play a role, Dennis is saying that he has the problem licked. I am
saying that I do not know, thus I am playing it safe by warning you
that if all else fails check your location and your polarity. Both
those topics are covered in my manual if you require further
information.
Of course when and if Joe and Dennis finally take pity on us, and lay
their cards on the table, the whole ' Y' factor issue should be
resolved.
I am not holding my breath however, as anal retentives have reasons to be retentive. <g>
PIN POINTING THE PROBLEM.
As this paper is headed ' Cell Problems ', I will not cover problems in
the transfer stages or the modifications required to the ' consuming '
device. I will concentrate on the cell only.
The above title is somewhat of a misnomer as I will describe how to
make a stage 3 cell. If you do not follow the instructions, then you
can pin point the problem to the step that you did not follow. <g>
I am telling you what I know will work. If you decide to take short
cuts with my suggestions, fine, but don't come to me when your cell
doesn't work!
I have had dozens of people visit or contact me telling me that their
cell does not work. On clarifying the problems, IN EACH CASE the
individual concerned had decided to ' improve ' on the design that I
have published!
Dear reader, get the cell going first and then and only then ' improve ' on the basic design.
In the following sub-headings I have covered the locations where the
problem may reside and I have suggested various options.
Geographical location.
Strictly not cell related, so see my manual.
The individual.
As above.
Cylinders and case material.
As we are employing electrolysis, it would be logical to employ a
material that is largely immune to the actions of the electrolysis
process. After many tests, and including Joe's recommendations,
stainless steel is the logical choice. All other material like copper,
brass and aluminium are interactive.
Joe has suggested food grade non-magnetic steel as the ' right ' one to
use. This advice is a little nebulous, but it points us to the 300
series range of stainless steels and logically the choice is out of
304, 316 and 316L.
The dairy industry in Australia ( this is where Joe obtained his steel
) uses 304. Lately Joe has suggested 316 non-magnetic, food grade.
I personally have found very good results with 316L.
I would suggest to you that 304 or 316 are both fine, the points that
are important is the non-magnetic aspects of the material and the
neutrality to electrolysis.
The next stage is to find the stainless and make sure that we buy the correct type.
Where I am, I can simply go for a 20 mile drive and this will allow me
to have a scrounge at several scrap metal dealers. Of course you may
not be so lucky, you may have to buy it new, ouch.
A couple of years ago, I was involved in the testing of all possible
stainless steels for a potential mass producer of the cell for the
world market. Now this was a chance of a life time for me as I did not
have to pay the many thousands of dollars that were required to
purchase a length of each type ( including 316S designed for the
nuclear industry, very beautiful material indeed ).
After 7 months of testing, I arrived at some very valuable conclusions that I want to share with you.
* Most stainless has a seam along the entire length that is either a
straight or spiral weld. The quality of this weld varies greatly as
well as the uniformity of the thickness of the tube on the weld.
* It is very hard to find seamless stainless. This converts to very expensive, and you really do not need it.
* If the stainless is wrapped in a plastic sleeve or/and if it has the
type number stamped on it at regular intervals, you will find that this
type has a better seam weld.
* If you can see a darker weld colour along the seam, I would suggest
that you test it thoroughly before you pay for it.
* If you can feel that the thickness of the tube is greater on the weld
compared to the rest of the tube, again be very wary.
* If as you rotate the tube in your hand, you can feel that it is not
truly circular, again be wary. You could use a pair of callipers or
similar if you do not trust your feel. The tube should be circular to
very close limits.
* I was unable to find a good tube in all the cheaper Asian imported
material even though they had a mirror finish. You have been warned!
To put the above together, I would suggest that you only buy top grade
stainless AFTER you have tested it with your magnet.
What magnet you say? <g>
All Joe cell experimenters have a rare earth magnet on a piece of string or Nylon, sheesh, don't you?
The first thing that you learn about this magnet is that it loves to
erase credit cards, so do the obvious, keep it well away from your
wallet and similar.
I have made a keeper for mine, that joins the North and South poles
together and this reduces the stray fields considerably whilst I carry
it.
If you dangle the magnet on about a foot of line, you will notice that
it will be gently attracted to some areas of the tube, but rather more
to the seam. If it sticks to the seam and stays there supporting its
own weight, that tube is NOT suitable! I don't care if you are going to
heat treat it or even if you get the Pope to bless it, give it a miss.
Mild attraction, is okay as long as there is no areas that have patches
of strong attraction. Remember, I am talking about checking the whole
damn length and not just doing a ten second swing to impress the guy in
the shop. Yes, it is a pain in the butt and may take you at least half
an hour ( for a whole cell set of cylinders ) and by this time any
staff member would have long left, leaving you with a questioning look
but in peace to do your work.
So to conclude this section, get the good grade and test it to make sure it is the good grade.
Making the cell.
This involves cutting, polishing and joining operations. Any of these
steps may cause irreversible damage to your investment, so think about
it.
Cutting can be performed with a bi-metal blade in a hacksaw, with an
angle grinder and a metal cutting wheel or with a lathe. The secret is
to keep the heat way, way down. If the cutting process will generate
heat ( as with the angle grinder ), leave a 1/4 inch spare in length
and trim to size on a lathe.
Nice and slow with a bi-metal blade in a hack saw will do the job.
I would suggest that in all cases , the cylinders are finished to size
on a lathe as this is the only easy method of assuring that all the
cylinders will have two parallel and flat faces, and all tubes will be
the same length.
The overall match in length is not that critical, a few thou here to
there does not matter! On assembly you simply make sure that the tops
are all level as the bottom length difference is not that critical.
I have used cylinders up to 1/8 of an inch longer and they still worked fine, as long as the tops are level.
The next step is the polishing. Before moving to this step again check
your tubes for any extra magnetism, ALL OVER! It this has not changed,
move on to the polishing.
The rules of polishing are simple, the smoother the better, the less heat whilst polishing the better.
The less the polish on the surface the less the efficiency of the cell, but it will still work.
A mirror finish inside and out is great, but I for one have better
things to do in life, however if you have the tools and the inclination
and the time go for it.
The internal finish ( the concave side ) is more critical than the
easier to polish outside. You would expect this as life was not meant
to be easy. < grin >
I spin my cylinders in a lathe and use a 360 grit emery cloth until all
major scratch marks are removed and if you held a screw driver ( or
similar ) right next to it you can see the reflection. At no stage are
my tubes that smooth that I can use them as a mirror for shaving. Don't
laugh, I have seen tubes like that from other experimenters. Beautiful,
but for other reasons their cells still did not work!
Make sure that you polish in a circular sweep ( around the tube ) and not up and down the length.
You do not want any cris cross marks at all.
When you are happy with these two operations, move on. If you have used
any high speed polishing method that generated heat then, yep, check
them all over for a change in their magnetic effects.
The joints on the outer casings ( the container ) are super important
and the source of MOST failures of the cell to go to stage three. As
you can surmise, the cylinder to cone and the cone to outlet adaptor
are the two joints that will stop the cell dead.
A weld at either of these spots will create a lovely ring of heavily
magnetised metal and stop the cell dead from being able to transfer the
' force ' to where you want it.
Have a real serious think here before you hit these areas with your
trusty arc welder that was designed for welding plates on battle ships.
Unfortunately I cannot enclose pictures with this paper, but my manual
has a few of the related photos but nor enough to do justice to the
subject.
I will have to work out some way of getting about 6o M/bytes of photos
onto a suitable site. Anyway back to the subject at hand.
Joe and I recommend no welding at these critical areas. This makes it
so much harder as far as construction is concerned, but it is the only
100% guaranteed method of not introducing a magnetic change at these
critical areas.
The bottom joint to the flat base or cone or sphere is nowhere near as sensitive.
I have made over 30 cells and all are different. I have featured a cell
in the manual, ( Old Trusty ) that breaks most of the above rules,
there are always exceptions to rules, as after all rules are made to be
broken, WHEN you know what you are doing that is.
There are many ways of holding two pieces of metal at a butt joint without welding or brazing or even soldering.
What you want is a seamless transition of tube inner diameter to cone
and then to your outlet. Many ways of doing this, and we have the great
advantage that the joint is not under any great pressure and thus
welding is not mandatory.
I will again stress that the less heat used on the joint, the greater is your guarantee of success.
In descending order of preference of a joining method,( the lower the better );
oxy. acetylene welding, oxy acetylene brazing, arc welding, Mig
welding, soldering, cold welding, ( chemical two packs type ), Tig
welding, threaded joint, press fit joint, butt joint with outer support
sleeve, butt joint and Sikaflex, one piece cell casing.
From the above as you can see, the top joint is permanent and access
should be provided via the bottom joint for maintenance operations.
The central bolt fixture.
The bolt, washers and nut must also be compatible material and also must not exhibit magnetic anomalies.
Whatever method you decide on to join the bolt to the inside of the one inch tube, please observe the following;
* The bottom of the bolt head must be at least 1/8 of an inch inside the tube.
* Do not weld the bolt to the tube, a press fit is the way to go.
* Make sure that there are gaps for water circulation in and out the bottom of the tube.
* Design your bolt fixture so that the neutrals are at least 1/2 inch
off the bottom of the cell ( that is if you are using a flat bottom
plate ). I use a one inch clearance.
* Insulate the bolt body from under the bolt head to your inner exit washer. Nylon or similar type tubing is fine.
The insulators.
Many insulators have been tried, many insulators have failed!
If the insulator leaves a pitted or burned mark where it is wedged
against the cylinders, it is shorting out, It is no good, throw it out!
I am not talking about shorting out as in Ohms law and low resistance.
I am talking about a shunt to a very high frequency field!
PLEASE READ CAREFULLY.
One of the greatest causes of cell failures is the insulators. The
insulators have to be compatible with your cell design, the water and
the chemicals that are in the water. I do not mean deliberate chemicals
that you put in. I mean the chemicals that are already in the chosen
water.
For example, the cell does generate ozone. Ozone mixed with air will
make nitric acid ( reaction with the nitrogen ). Nitric acid is very
chewy stuff.
I am sick to death of people saying that Joe does not use electrolyte.
Yes, that is true, I also do not use electrolyte in some of my cells.
However, Joe's stream water is full of fertiliser from the adjacent
farming and so his water does have electrolyser in it even though he
does not add it himself.
Just think about it please, Joe can pass 25 amps at 12 volts through his cell! No electrolyser? Yeah right!
All natural water has chemicals in it, and this chemistry will reduce
the resistance ( conductance ) of the water and thus increase the
current flow.
Water that does not have electrolyte in it ( artificially made water ),
has such a high resistance ,that at 12 volts, you would get hardly any
current flow, very low electrolysis and thus no bubbles.
Bubbles mean ( in this instance ) electrolysis and electrolysis means
current flow and current flow means a conductive path, a conductive
path means free ions!
In the later phase of Joe's experimentation he did use ' distilled '
water. To make a cell work with distilled water Joe had a special power
supply and the voltage was much higher than 12 volts.
To the best of my knowledge Joe never used laboratory grade de-ionised
water and I am very sure that this would have not worked no matter what
the rumour may be.
It is all academic really, just use spring water, it will work fine.
Back to the insulators.
If the metal shows sign of corrosion at the insulator location, you are using the wrong insulators. Throw them away.
If the insulators have gone all slimy and or mushie, you are using the wrong insulators. Throw them away.
Some insulators that have ' worked ' for me and others are;
* Red chemical rubber bottle stoppers. Will make the water go red, work but I don't like them.
* The early version of traffic counting air hose, the present one is useless.
* The black hose used for oxygen for welding. Must be the old type without the ribbing!
* Various type of glue sticks. Tend to be too soft.
* Various types of rubber lines as used in cars. Beware, some are no good. Not worth the bother.
* The use of little mica washers on each side of the insulating
rubbers. These are normally used as insulators for transistors when
they are mounted on a heat sink. Far better to use the right
insulators and thus not have to fiddle around with mica as well.
* Ebonite rod shaped to size. My preference.
* Glass marbles. Very hard to put in, but when in, they do a fair job.
* Silicone hose as used in hospitals and laboratories ( the clear stuff ). Works well although a little too soft.
* Sikaflex. Home made and Joe's preference. Works as well but no better than ebonite in my cells.
If you get a cartridge of Sikaflex ( marine grade, white ) and allow
the Sikaflex to cure in the nozzle, you can remove this plug and cut it
up for a couple of insulators. I am sure that with a bit of imagination
you can work out a better way of making a whole stick at a time.
When inserting the insulators, place them in three radial rows about
120 degrees apart and about a 1/4 inch down from the top and bottom
ends of the cylinders.
The water.
The subject is covered in depth in my manual, so what more can I say that may help?
I must repeat, do not use tap water or any water that has chlorine,
fluoride, alum, lime or similar additives in it. It will not work and
will also cover your cylinders with oxides and thus stop the cell from
ever going stage 3, guaranteed
I only use spring or rain water, or in desperation a water called Noble
water and sold in supermarkets in Australia. The Noble water is
guaranteed chemical free and it works to a degree but is a very slow
starter and seems to die or as Joe say's ' go off ' quite easily.
I have no problems in getting a cell to stage three with rain or spring water.
My problems is keeping it at that stage. <g>
Try an use fresh water and do not store it in the sun or in plastic
containers. Imagine that you are going to drink it and treat it in that
fashion. If you would not drink it yourself, why do you except the cell
to like it?
I have found that if I pass the water through a Grander unit, it will
not ' go off ' as quickly and can be stored for months.
Power application.
The rules are simple, do not cook the cell, do not overcharge, do not use to much current.
When I wrote my manual, I tried to set some sort of standard that all
cell experimenters could follow and thus we could all compare notes.
Hah, now that was wishful thinking!
The standard came from tests by Joe. For example, when he ran his cell
on his son's Escort, he had an ammeter in series with the cell and it
was indicating 1.26 amps.
So, 12 volts and 1 amp seemed like a nice all round figure to use as a
standard. However, as I soon found out, this information was translated
in so many different rules and methodologies by all and sundry, that
any attempt to maintain some sort of uniformity was a waste of time.
This must reflect normal human nature, as we can see by simply looking
at all the different standards in the audio and video fields to name a
couple.
Since those days I have changed my recommendations to allow all people to do their own thing.
Simply stated, you should pass about a 1/4 to 1/2 of an amp through
your cell with NO electrolyte. If you do not see some action with 2
minutes, turn if off and look for a problem.
As you are only interested in the current, you simply increase the voltage until you get the required current flow.
I repeat, there is no point in going on, if it has not shown signs of action in 2 minutes, it never will.
HOWEVER, and this is a very important fact. The cell may behave
differently every time you reapply the power. Only a stable cell (
fairly rare creature ) will behave the same way on each power
reapplication.
To repeat the above, an unstable cell may produce different behaviours
each time you reapply the power. A stable cell will start in the same
mode each time.
Depending on the conductivity of the water, you may find that you will
need up to 250 volts to get this 1/4 to 1/2 amp current flow. I have
found that generally 75 volts is a good ball park figure with my types
of water.
Obviously if you want to use the cell in a car, you will have to play
with the electrolyte as mentioned in my manual, as you have no control
on the voltage delivered by the car regulator, ( about 14.9 volts is as
high as you will get ).
On the power supply topic, please read my paper on negative
electricity, as this is the requirement for the stage 4 cell. At this
time , I have been unable to make one, and as Joe is not telling, it
may take me a bit longer to come up with the design.
At the moment I am working on a Tesla switch ( Bedini two capacitor
concept ) as a power supply for the cell. I will let you all know if I
come up with something.
Cell observation.
Some things to look for in a stage 3 cell:
* All cylinders should stay clean, on BOTH sides.
* The cell will ' remove ' out of the water what it does not want .
This ' scum ' should be either at the top or bottom of the cell and not
on the cylinders.
* You should filter this ' scum ' out of the water and keep reusing the
water that the cell is converting. Only top it up, do not replace it
unless you are not getting anywhere with the cell.
* You should see very small bubbles rising from both side of the cylinders.
* The top surface of the water should develop an oily type film (
surface tension ). This will only occur if you keep the water at the
right level.
The right level ( for a test cell ) is meniscus height or just high
enough water for the bubbles to freely flow on the total surface of the
water. Obviously you should keep the cell level to achieve this.
* The cell should never get hot or even warm.
* On turning the power off, the tiny bubbles should form little islands
that may be turning in a clockwise or anticlockwise direction or some
one way and others the opposite way.
* The bubbles should not simply rise to the surface. You should see the
tiny bubbles following eddies and meandering all over the place. For
example they may be travelling in one direction between one set of
neutrals and travelling the opposite direction in the next gap.
* When the cell is charged you will notice a North/South magnetisation
in the vertical plane. This is normal and a good sign. On removal of
the water this field should disappear.
The above is what I do and what I have observed with my stage 3 cells.
You should do and see very similar results. If not, go through my
points and see where the discrepancy is. That may be your problem.
Good luck and don't give up, if I can do it so can you, my only
trick is persistence. Stick with one cell until you are sure that it is
faulty, there is no point in changing things just for the sake of
changes.
The above cell does work and has worked for many. After you are
familiar with the above basic cell, then and only then move into the
construction of the specialised versions.
Learn to walk before you attempt to run, saves you from falling flat on your face. <g>
***********************************************
The Experimenter's Guide to the Joe Cell