July 2002.
CELL/CAR OPERATION.
Aim.
The purpose of this update is to compile all the known factual and proven data on the cell in relation to car operation only.This data is not simply based on " Joe said, Alex said, etc ". It is based on conclusive empirical tests that have been replicated by at least two or more cell experimenters.
There is an immense amount of speculation, disinformation, wishful thinking and wild theories that are circulating the Internet.
Just like UFO sightings the above achieves derision for any factual sighting or successful cell experimenters from the so called scientific peers. Thus the experimenters are divided, shamed and mocked into clandestine research and minimal reports.
And so the aims of the controlling minority are achieved yet again.
I have done my best to present the facts form my daily cell research and contacts with successful researchers. This is given to you freely in the spirit of sharing and brotherhood.
Needles to say you have to treat this update with equal suspicion as any other set of radical claims. That I would expect from any logical, scientific and open mind. I am always receptive to positive criticism.
Introduction.
I see that the majority of individuals have a desire to ' run ' a car on a cell. Although there is a multiplicity of far more noble uses for this accumulator or converter, I will provide the information slanted towards that desire.
As we should all know by now, the success of the above desire can be broadly broken up into 3 main stages.
1. The cell.
2. The transfer from the cell to car.
3. The car modifications and conversion process.
Thus the known facts on the above will be presented under these three headings and in no particular order of importance.
The cell.
* The power source for the cell can be a battery, batteries , power supply or similar. There is no need for the latest ' special ' power supply to achieve stage three. I cannot stress this enough, as recently there has been deliberate misinformation stating that only a ' special ' power supply will do.
If you look at this matter historically, Joe stared his research in 1991 and in those early days he only used a 12 Volt car battery, and later on a Telecom 75 volt 50 Amp battery charger. These are the facts.
Personally with my modest successes, I never had the luxury of this ' special ' power supply.
Of course I would like the schematic as how to make one, but the anal retentives will be what they are, retentive.
You can be assured that the day I get it, the next day you will have it, and that is the reason that nobody is talking to me.
There is no need for special filters, huge smoothing capacitor, complex wave shapes, special ' secret ' frequencies, special Zenner diode networks, impossible AC ' charging ', ' turning ' around the negative, or any similar gobble gook.
Yes, for an advanced researcher Joe's new power supply will start just about any cell and on just about any water, but it is not vital to have one to prove the basic concepts of running a car on a cell.
* A properly working cell will keep all the cylinder surfaces clean. On the application of power both surfaces ( except the outer positive and the inner negative ) will have a gas production of very fine bubbles. This is aided by having all surfaces highly polished.
Yes, the polishing should be inside the cylinders as well and not just the easy to do outsides.
* No surface tension is a very good indication that your cell is not working properly or at all.
* The personal ' polarity ' of an individual will definitely interact with the cell in the crucial seeding stages. This may help or deter or completely stop the seeding process.
* An easy way to test if the cell is breeding is to light a bubble and observe the effect. That is the only use of the bubbles to us, for the car does not run on the bubbles. In actuality, charged water ( without power applied ) does not have visible gas production and it runs the car just fine.
NOTE!
Be extremely cautious lighting any crystal clear long staying bubbles (
a day or so old ). These little fellows contain an incredible amount of
' energy ' that can cause severe damage over a large area on being
ignited. Don't say that I did not warn you!
* There is no need for electrolyte in most instances. The need for electrolyte signifies a cell problem or very low voltage. By increasing the voltage applied to the cell you can make any cell start seeding ( all other parameters being okay that is ).
In actuality the breeding cell will reject all impurities ( including the electrolyte ) from the water and this will be the commonly observed sediments that are seen in the cell in various locations. Once these impurities are removed, the water will remain crystal clear.
Note. Some water will continue to release chemicals. I decided with one cell to see exactly how much and how long. After 3 months the cell was completely filled with sediment ( to the very top ), there seems to be no end to it.
Solution? Change the water type and try again. You may have to try dozens of water types before you find the ' right ' one for you and your cell.
The big advantage of using the vat is that the impurities stay in the keg and you remove the clean charged water and use it to fill the car cell
So if you have used electrolyte and have not ' cooked ' the cell, as the cell starts to seed and then breed it will self clean and reject these ' impurities ' and still end up a working cell.
All that I am pointing out is that with a higher voltage, electrolyte is not required.
Please note. Incompatible metal, excess charging time and excess currents will deposit the actual metals of the cylinders themselves. Simply stated, you have ' cooked ' the cell, pull it apart, start again.
* I must have said this hundreds of times, we are not interested in electrolysis or the generation of hydrogen and/or oxygen, thus we are not interested in large currents, and extended periods of ' charging ' time.
If there is no sign of the ' right ' activity within one minute ( at the longest ), stop. Change something and try again.
You may get the cell breeding first time or after months, or years. If it does not work, change something, there is no point in giving it more power or charging time. Sooner to later, you will strike the right ' frequency ' ( as Joe calls it ), it is a matter of observation and persistence and the right mindset.
If all fails, check you body polarity, you should be ' positive '. If not, you can temporarily flip your body potential and ( if this was the problem ), the cell will now perform for you.
I have written down the procedure in my manual ( there is a free copy on the web ).
You may laugh, however this is an often proven ' cure '.
Read, experiment, share. The aim of these notes are to help you on the path to success.
* The water level must be above the top of the cylinders for the cell to work properly. A working level of the water above the cylinders of 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch is fine for a start.
* The insulators have to be seen as performing a variety of functions;
A. An insulator of high resistance to conform to Ohm's law.
B. An insulator to prevent the ' short circuit ' of the special field that do not conform to Ohm's law.
C. As a rigid support member to support the cylinder stack.
D. As a precise spacer to retain the cylinders in accurate concentric orientation.
* The only proven cell materials that work are 316 or 304 ( food grade ) stainless steel.
Yes, I know that people have brass, copper, aluminium and even precious metal coated cells out there. In 8 years, I have not heard of one person that has a car running on an alternate metal cell, and by that I mean a car running on a cell alone and not a shandy of cell and petrol.
If they have, they have not bothered to share it with the rest of us, and in that case there are more than useless to us, themselves and society as a whole.
It is very important that the stainless is seamless or at least not to have a residual magnetic field discontinuity on the weld, or anywhere else for that matter.
During the early and very delicate seeding stages, the cell relies on creating its own spiral magnetic field. Any residual magnetism will fight the establishment of this field by the cell. That is the reason that the initial material must be non magnetic to a reasonable degree.
A very simple indicator that you have a ' magnetised ' seam is that the cell will develop a fine black vertical line at the problem area. Additionally, if there is a bad field discontinuity, it will also create a fine vertical black line on the opposite side to the trouble area. If you have a faulty cell, dismantle it, let the cylinders dry naturally ( do not wipe the water off ) and have a careful look.
If you have these vertical black lines, that cylinder is no good, get it heat treated or throw it away.
Once the cell establishes seeding and then breeding, it can cope with external magnetic fields to some extent, as it now has set up it's own permanent field patterns.
Like all devices of this type, the starting of them is the hardest and most critical part of the whole procedure.
* The charge remains in the water and the transfer of this water to another non working cell, ( or the car cell ) will start up this new cell. This is on the proviso that the new cell is a suitable candidate.
* For the zillionth time, WE DO NOT run the motor on hydrogen or oxygen, or their injection into the intake side of the motor. I am always amazed as to how many ' experts ' analyse the cell operation as if it was some sort of hydrogen gas generator. It is not!
WE DO NOT have any direct opening from the cell to the vacuum side of any part of the motor. We use a blanking plug on to the side of the motor or on the intake manifold, carburettor or similar.
Sometime ( rarely ) a very small hole is drilled in the blanking plug if it is connected to a component that may have vacuum on the other side.
Rarely!
* A breeding cell does not require power to be applied to it after a successful car installation.
Periodically, power does have to be applied to a leaking cell and/or during the conversion of the car and its contents ( and occupants ).
In fact, once the car is totally ' converted ', the cell can be removed completely.
* If the cell is not ' stable ', and if power is applied to it in the car, the cell may start in a different ' mode ' each time the ignition ( power to the cell ) is turned on. Needless to say, the reliability factor would drive a person insane.
Power to the cell does provide more power in some situations, but you have to be aware of the above shortcomings. If ( and that is a big if ), you had a stable cell, this cell would start up in the same mode each time and the above problem would not exist.
It is wiser to fill the car cell with charged water on a as need basis and not to connect the cell to power in the car. If however the geometry, or location and such like of the cell is unsuitable, the charged water will be ' discharged ' in a relatively short period to time. You will have to play the game by ear, yes, it is called experimentation.
Sooner or later, you will find that the water remains charged, the car remains charged and that the car is reliable in any location over long periods of time. As this goal has different solution for different combinations of car and occupant/s, there are no clear cut rules that apply to all situations.
* It must be realised that when the car is running on the cell, the butterfly of the carburettor become an air quantity control and so it is the ' mixture ' control for the air/' force ' mixture.
Normally ( on petrol ) the mixture is a function of jetting and the butterfly is ' how much ' of the optimised mix you allow the motor to intake.
The above is one of the reasons of not having the cell operating on idle, as the air flow may be insufficient to provide the right mixture.
This is very important! It explains why the car may ' take off ' as you remove your foot from the accelerator and then stumble when you put your foot down.
You will have to rethink the role of the accelerator to overcome any problems in this area.
The above is also the reason that the Rover ( using a Zenith, a form of S. U. carburettor ) works so well as we have a constant displacement system. The needle and so the fuel quantity is controlled by the lifting of a tapered needle under vacuum control.
Conversely, in a normal carburettor the mixture comes from a variety of jets that provide differing quantities of fuel under vacuum control. Sounds the same but it is not.
* Joe's first car and easy conversion was a Rover 3500 SDI. This motor is a ' natural ' for cell conversions.
If you have a stationary installation ( a test stand motor ), re-read the above note on the function of the butterfly.
* The converted car will display some very bizarre effects;
A. Radiator can totally ice up.
B. Cold white mist comes out of exhaust and sometimes the exhaust will have ice on it.
C. Virtually silent running of motor and exhaust.
D. Unreasonably and normally impossible engine RPM, either abnormally high ( over 10,000 RPM ) or low ( 1 RPM ). Believe it or not.
E. Various problems with the oil that is in the engine, ie. it may try to escape in any way possible.
F. Weight loss of vehicle ( partial or complete ).
G. Various electrical failures of car instrumentation.
H. The motor may only idle and not rev out, or it will only run under load and not idle.
I. And of course, no fuel required to run the motor.
* Large timing changes are required to optimise the motor on the cell. For example the Rover required 80 degrees advance ( distributor degrees ). On non aluminium motors, you will do these advance changes on a progressive basis as you reduce the fuel quantity.
* On non aluminium motors the conversion to cell has to be done following a set procedure. Basically a charged cell has to be in the car first to partially ' charge ' the motor, and then slowly the fuel intake to the motor is reduced by either jet blockage or reduction or similar and then eventually the fuel is completely disconnected. At each step the appropriate advance adjustment are carried out.
This process may take days or even weeks.
So, with non aluminium type motors you cannot simply turn off the fuel source and then expect the cell to ' kick in ' and run the car.
When I was working on cars, I installed a cell first and drove around for several weeks to acclimatise the car. Only after that did I try any conversions. During this acclimatisation period the cell will tell you when it is ready.
It is not a simple conversion as on the Rover, where the fuel can be disconnected and the cell takes over and the motor is then optimised by ignition advance adjustments.
* The location of the cell is reasonably critical. Any locations adjacent to strong magnetic ( and thus interfering field ) must be avoided. This would include starter motor cabling, ignition wiring, ignition coil, distributor, spark plug wiring, electric fuel pump and wiring, windscreen wiper motor and wiring, electric fan and wiring, air conditioner clutch and wiring, alternator and wiring and similar devices that require or produce electromagnetic field.
* As mentioned in the cell section, a person can have an ' negative ' polarity, and an onlooker or passenger is able to stop the cell from functioning. Fact.
The above is some of the known cell/car data that I have and that I have either personally witnessed or have received from more than one trusted and reliable source.
If you can add facts to this list that will assist your fellow experimenters, what is holding you back?
If you want to give your favourite arm chair theoretical discourse, please don't bother, I personally am not interested, there is enough confusion already.
If you disagree with any of the above and can prove otherwise, please do so, for that is the reason for having the Joe cell discussion group.
I ( and my sources ) are far from infallible.
In the spirit of sharing and research I wish you all success.
*************************************************************
* There is no need for electrolyte in most instances. The need for electrolyte signifies a cell problem or very low voltage. By increasing the voltage applied to the cell you can make any cell start seeding ( all other parameters being okay that is ).
In actuality the breeding cell will reject all impurities ( including the electrolyte ) from the water and this will be the commonly observed sediments that are seen in the cell in various locations. Once these impurities are removed, the water will remain crystal clear.
Note. Some water will continue to release chemicals. I decided with one cell to see exactly how much and how long. After 3 months the cell was completely filled with sediment ( to the very top ), there seems to be no end to it.
Solution? Change the water type and try again. You may have to try dozens of water types before you find the ' right ' one for you and your cell.
The big advantage of using the vat is that the impurities stay in the keg and you remove the clean charged water and use it to fill the car cell
So if you have used electrolyte and have not ' cooked ' the cell, as the cell starts to seed and then breed it will self clean and reject these ' impurities ' and still end up a working cell.
All that I am pointing out is that with a higher voltage, electrolyte is not required.
Please note. Incompatible metal, excess charging time and excess currents will deposit the actual metals of the cylinders themselves. Simply stated, you have ' cooked ' the cell, pull it apart, start again.
* I must have said this hundreds of times, we are not interested in electrolysis or the generation of hydrogen and/or oxygen, thus we are not interested in large currents, and extended periods of ' charging ' time.
If there is no sign of the ' right ' activity within one minute ( at the longest ), stop. Change something and try again.
You may get the cell breeding first time or after months, or years. If it does not work, change something, there is no point in giving it more power or charging time. Sooner to later, you will strike the right ' frequency ' ( as Joe calls it ), it is a matter of observation and persistence and the right mindset.
If all fails, check you body polarity, you should be ' positive '. If not, you can temporarily flip your body potential and ( if this was the problem ), the cell will now perform for you.
I have written down the procedure in my manual ( there is a free copy on the web ).
You may laugh, however this is an often proven ' cure '.
Read, experiment, share. The aim of these notes are to help you on the path to success.
* The water level must be above the top of the cylinders for the cell to work properly. A working level of the water above the cylinders of 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch is fine for a start.
* The insulators have to be seen as performing a variety of functions;
A. An insulator of high resistance to conform to Ohm's law.
B. An insulator to prevent the ' short circuit ' of the special field that do not conform to Ohm's law.
C. As a rigid support member to support the cylinder stack.
D. As a precise spacer to retain the cylinders in accurate concentric orientation.
* The only proven cell materials that work are 316 or 304 ( food grade ) stainless steel.
Yes, I know that people have brass, copper, aluminium and even precious metal coated cells out there. In 8 years, I have not heard of one person that has a car running on an alternate metal cell, and by that I mean a car running on a cell alone and not a shandy of cell and petrol.
If they have, they have not bothered to share it with the rest of us, and in that case there are more than useless to us, themselves and society as a whole.
It is very important that the stainless is seamless or at least not to have a residual magnetic field discontinuity on the weld, or anywhere else for that matter.
During the early and very delicate seeding stages, the cell relies on creating its own spiral magnetic field. Any residual magnetism will fight the establishment of this field by the cell. That is the reason that the initial material must be non magnetic to a reasonable degree.
A very simple indicator that you have a ' magnetised ' seam is that the cell will develop a fine black vertical line at the problem area. Additionally, if there is a bad field discontinuity, it will also create a fine vertical black line on the opposite side to the trouble area. If you have a faulty cell, dismantle it, let the cylinders dry naturally ( do not wipe the water off ) and have a careful look.
If you have these vertical black lines, that cylinder is no good, get it heat treated or throw it away.
Once the cell establishes seeding and then breeding, it can cope with external magnetic fields to some extent, as it now has set up it's own permanent field patterns.
Like all devices of this type, the starting of them is the hardest and most critical part of the whole procedure.
* The charge remains in the water and the transfer of this water to another non working cell, ( or the car cell ) will start up this new cell. This is on the proviso that the new cell is a suitable candidate.
The transfer from the cell to the car.
* For the zillionth time, WE DO NOT run the motor on hydrogen or oxygen, or their injection into the intake side of the motor. I am always amazed as to how many ' experts ' analyse the cell operation as if it was some sort of hydrogen gas generator. It is not!
WE DO NOT have any direct opening from the cell to the vacuum side of any part of the motor. We use a blanking plug on to the side of the motor or on the intake manifold, carburettor or similar.
Sometime ( rarely ) a very small hole is drilled in the blanking plug if it is connected to a component that may have vacuum on the other side.
Rarely!
* A breeding cell does not require power to be applied to it after a successful car installation.
Periodically, power does have to be applied to a leaking cell and/or during the conversion of the car and its contents ( and occupants ).
In fact, once the car is totally ' converted ', the cell can be removed completely.
* If the cell is not ' stable ', and if power is applied to it in the car, the cell may start in a different ' mode ' each time the ignition ( power to the cell ) is turned on. Needless to say, the reliability factor would drive a person insane.
Power to the cell does provide more power in some situations, but you have to be aware of the above shortcomings. If ( and that is a big if ), you had a stable cell, this cell would start up in the same mode each time and the above problem would not exist.
It is wiser to fill the car cell with charged water on a as need basis and not to connect the cell to power in the car. If however the geometry, or location and such like of the cell is unsuitable, the charged water will be ' discharged ' in a relatively short period to time. You will have to play the game by ear, yes, it is called experimentation.
Sooner or later, you will find that the water remains charged, the car remains charged and that the car is reliable in any location over long periods of time. As this goal has different solution for different combinations of car and occupant/s, there are no clear cut rules that apply to all situations.
* It must be realised that when the car is running on the cell, the butterfly of the carburettor become an air quantity control and so it is the ' mixture ' control for the air/' force ' mixture.
Normally ( on petrol ) the mixture is a function of jetting and the butterfly is ' how much ' of the optimised mix you allow the motor to intake.
The above is one of the reasons of not having the cell operating on idle, as the air flow may be insufficient to provide the right mixture.
This is very important! It explains why the car may ' take off ' as you remove your foot from the accelerator and then stumble when you put your foot down.
You will have to rethink the role of the accelerator to overcome any problems in this area.
The above is also the reason that the Rover ( using a Zenith, a form of S. U. carburettor ) works so well as we have a constant displacement system. The needle and so the fuel quantity is controlled by the lifting of a tapered needle under vacuum control.
Conversely, in a normal carburettor the mixture comes from a variety of jets that provide differing quantities of fuel under vacuum control. Sounds the same but it is not.
The car modifications and conversion process.
* Joe's first car and easy conversion was a Rover 3500 SDI. This motor is a ' natural ' for cell conversions.
If you have a stationary installation ( a test stand motor ), re-read the above note on the function of the butterfly.
* The converted car will display some very bizarre effects;
A. Radiator can totally ice up.
B. Cold white mist comes out of exhaust and sometimes the exhaust will have ice on it.
C. Virtually silent running of motor and exhaust.
D. Unreasonably and normally impossible engine RPM, either abnormally high ( over 10,000 RPM ) or low ( 1 RPM ). Believe it or not.
E. Various problems with the oil that is in the engine, ie. it may try to escape in any way possible.
F. Weight loss of vehicle ( partial or complete ).
G. Various electrical failures of car instrumentation.
H. The motor may only idle and not rev out, or it will only run under load and not idle.
I. And of course, no fuel required to run the motor.
* Large timing changes are required to optimise the motor on the cell. For example the Rover required 80 degrees advance ( distributor degrees ). On non aluminium motors, you will do these advance changes on a progressive basis as you reduce the fuel quantity.
* On non aluminium motors the conversion to cell has to be done following a set procedure. Basically a charged cell has to be in the car first to partially ' charge ' the motor, and then slowly the fuel intake to the motor is reduced by either jet blockage or reduction or similar and then eventually the fuel is completely disconnected. At each step the appropriate advance adjustment are carried out.
This process may take days or even weeks.
So, with non aluminium type motors you cannot simply turn off the fuel source and then expect the cell to ' kick in ' and run the car.
When I was working on cars, I installed a cell first and drove around for several weeks to acclimatise the car. Only after that did I try any conversions. During this acclimatisation period the cell will tell you when it is ready.
It is not a simple conversion as on the Rover, where the fuel can be disconnected and the cell takes over and the motor is then optimised by ignition advance adjustments.
* The location of the cell is reasonably critical. Any locations adjacent to strong magnetic ( and thus interfering field ) must be avoided. This would include starter motor cabling, ignition wiring, ignition coil, distributor, spark plug wiring, electric fuel pump and wiring, windscreen wiper motor and wiring, electric fan and wiring, air conditioner clutch and wiring, alternator and wiring and similar devices that require or produce electromagnetic field.
* As mentioned in the cell section, a person can have an ' negative ' polarity, and an onlooker or passenger is able to stop the cell from functioning. Fact.
Conclusion.
The above is some of the known cell/car data that I have and that I have either personally witnessed or have received from more than one trusted and reliable source.
If you can add facts to this list that will assist your fellow experimenters, what is holding you back?
If you want to give your favourite arm chair theoretical discourse, please don't bother, I personally am not interested, there is enough confusion already.
If you disagree with any of the above and can prove otherwise, please do so, for that is the reason for having the Joe cell discussion group.
I ( and my sources ) are far from infallible.
In the spirit of sharing and research I wish you all success.
*************************************************************